Post by galactapuss on Oct 11, 2009 10:20:03 GMT -8
Below is the text of an article in Salisbury, MD about possibly banning Dragonball manga v1 at a school library.
(note: having written the rest of the stuff below just now, I ended up writing quite a bit more than I expected, certainly more than just 'here's an article about manga')
I haven't read the manga, but i've seen the japanese version of the anime . The matter of nudity (children, in a non-sexualized context) I could put down to cultural difference. Maybe even the bit about Goku (a child at this point in the story) discovering the difference between boys and girls ('no balls!') in the sense of a child asking questions- there's no issue of either Goku or Bulma getting any enjoyment/arousal out of it.
Master Roshi is a different matter, perhaps. It's the 'dirty old man' trope. We may be used to seeing this in manga as followed by swift retribution (ex: by the hammer of hammerspace) or to exploit a character's weakness (get Roshi to do something for the other characters), but even this might be put down to a cultural difference. I thought the American perspective might be that Roshi is a pedophile. That may be what the good people of Salisbury are thinking. According to the Dragonball wiki (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bulma) Bulma should be 16 at this point in the series. I looked up the age of consent in Maryland (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_age_of_consent_in_Maryland), where it appears to be 16, notwithstanding the age difference between the 2 people. Roshi is quite a bit older than Bulma (certainly more than 4 years older), so any connection there would be illegal.
Is Roshi a pedophile? Regardless of age of consent matters, i'd have to say no. A pedophile (wiki here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile) is defined as someone with a sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. I don't know that the manga (or anime or any other Dragonball canon) says whether or not Bulma's gone through menarche by this point in the series, but she's definitely got secondary sexual characteristics (boobs) and she's 16, so it seems to be a fairly safe assumption that she isn't, or at least isn't meant to be pre-pubsecent. If that's the case, then Roshi isn't a pedophile. What I don't remember is whether or not Roshi ever encounters a pre-pubescent Chichi and, if so, whether or not he shows any interest in her.
The folks in Salisbury appear to be concerned, in part, that Roshi is getting some sexual gratification (shown via nosebleeds) out of seeing a 16-year old's naughty bits. This is where it might, again, come down to cultural differences. While there are some people here (in the US) that are offended at anyone enjoying the sight of anyone's naughty bits, the general rule is that it's acceptable for an adult male to enjoy the sight of a female who is 18 years old or older, but that he's a pervert if she's under the age of 18. So, Roshi's a pervert. But we already knew that. That's one of the maint parts of his character. He's a dirty old man.
I'm inclined to put even that down to cultural differences. What I think the people of Salisbury might be rightly (or at least, reasonably) concerned about is that this might be teaching an unintended lesson to the reader- that a girl can use aspects of her sexuality to get men to do things for her. As adults we know this is true in the real world, even if we don't like it. The people of Salisbury might reasonably decide that this is a lesson they don't want their children to learn, or that they don't want their children to learn at this point in the children's lives, from this particular source (the school library).
I've always wondered if there might be some kind of classification that could be added to books with potentially controversial subject matter. Let's say Dragonball v1 remains available in the school library, but it's not on the shelves immediately accessible to the students. It's kept in a locked case (like expensive movies at a store). If a student wants to check out Dragonball v1, they have to take a permission slip home to their parents, have the parents sign it, then bring the slip back to the librarian. Only then is the student allowed to check it out. The permission slip is tailored to each title. In this case, it wouldn't just be a generic permission slip, but one tailored to the particular content in Dragonball v1, noting the potentially offensive content. That way the parents know what their child has access to and each parent can choose what they do or don't allow their child to read.
I hope the people of Salisbury find a solution that lets all parents concerned make the decisions they want to make for their own children. For the most part I would say that I think a parent should be able to make decisions for their own children, but not for other peoples' children, but there are limits. My gut tells me this is one of those cases where it should be a parent-level decision and not a blanket, community-level decision. Permission slips might be the best way to go.
The article is here: www.delmarvanow.com/article/20091007/NEWS01/910070391/1002/Schools-library-book-pulled-for-sexual-content
(note: having written the rest of the stuff below just now, I ended up writing quite a bit more than I expected, certainly more than just 'here's an article about manga')
I haven't read the manga, but i've seen the japanese version of the anime . The matter of nudity (children, in a non-sexualized context) I could put down to cultural difference. Maybe even the bit about Goku (a child at this point in the story) discovering the difference between boys and girls ('no balls!') in the sense of a child asking questions- there's no issue of either Goku or Bulma getting any enjoyment/arousal out of it.
Master Roshi is a different matter, perhaps. It's the 'dirty old man' trope. We may be used to seeing this in manga as followed by swift retribution (ex: by the hammer of hammerspace) or to exploit a character's weakness (get Roshi to do something for the other characters), but even this might be put down to a cultural difference. I thought the American perspective might be that Roshi is a pedophile. That may be what the good people of Salisbury are thinking. According to the Dragonball wiki (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bulma) Bulma should be 16 at this point in the series. I looked up the age of consent in Maryland (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_age_of_consent_in_Maryland), where it appears to be 16, notwithstanding the age difference between the 2 people. Roshi is quite a bit older than Bulma (certainly more than 4 years older), so any connection there would be illegal.
Is Roshi a pedophile? Regardless of age of consent matters, i'd have to say no. A pedophile (wiki here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile) is defined as someone with a sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. I don't know that the manga (or anime or any other Dragonball canon) says whether or not Bulma's gone through menarche by this point in the series, but she's definitely got secondary sexual characteristics (boobs) and she's 16, so it seems to be a fairly safe assumption that she isn't, or at least isn't meant to be pre-pubsecent. If that's the case, then Roshi isn't a pedophile. What I don't remember is whether or not Roshi ever encounters a pre-pubescent Chichi and, if so, whether or not he shows any interest in her.
The folks in Salisbury appear to be concerned, in part, that Roshi is getting some sexual gratification (shown via nosebleeds) out of seeing a 16-year old's naughty bits. This is where it might, again, come down to cultural differences. While there are some people here (in the US) that are offended at anyone enjoying the sight of anyone's naughty bits, the general rule is that it's acceptable for an adult male to enjoy the sight of a female who is 18 years old or older, but that he's a pervert if she's under the age of 18. So, Roshi's a pervert. But we already knew that. That's one of the maint parts of his character. He's a dirty old man.
I'm inclined to put even that down to cultural differences. What I think the people of Salisbury might be rightly (or at least, reasonably) concerned about is that this might be teaching an unintended lesson to the reader- that a girl can use aspects of her sexuality to get men to do things for her. As adults we know this is true in the real world, even if we don't like it. The people of Salisbury might reasonably decide that this is a lesson they don't want their children to learn, or that they don't want their children to learn at this point in the children's lives, from this particular source (the school library).
I've always wondered if there might be some kind of classification that could be added to books with potentially controversial subject matter. Let's say Dragonball v1 remains available in the school library, but it's not on the shelves immediately accessible to the students. It's kept in a locked case (like expensive movies at a store). If a student wants to check out Dragonball v1, they have to take a permission slip home to their parents, have the parents sign it, then bring the slip back to the librarian. Only then is the student allowed to check it out. The permission slip is tailored to each title. In this case, it wouldn't just be a generic permission slip, but one tailored to the particular content in Dragonball v1, noting the potentially offensive content. That way the parents know what their child has access to and each parent can choose what they do or don't allow their child to read.
I hope the people of Salisbury find a solution that lets all parents concerned make the decisions they want to make for their own children. For the most part I would say that I think a parent should be able to make decisions for their own children, but not for other peoples' children, but there are limits. My gut tells me this is one of those cases where it should be a parent-level decision and not a blanket, community-level decision. Permission slips might be the best way to go.
The article is here: www.delmarvanow.com/article/20091007/NEWS01/910070391/1002/Schools-library-book-pulled-for-sexual-content
SALISBURY -- Joe Holloway, the racy illustrations spread out in front of him, had prepared a show-and-tell segment for his fellow council members.
Holloway had copied portions of a Japanese graphic novel. He said a fourth-grader recently checked it out of the Pittsville Elementary and Middle School library.
The book, "Dragon Ball, Volume 1: The Monkey King." is laid out like a comic book, and in it children sometimes appear naked. Akira Toriyama's book, later adapted into a popular animated TV show, focuses on Son Goku, a monkey-tailed boy on a quest to obtain mythical objects called Dragon Balls.
"In cartoon format, it depicts nudity, sexual contact between children and sexual innuendo among adults and children," Holloway told fellow council members during the comment period of Tuesday's meeting.
Photocopies provided by Holloway detail several of the scenes.
In one, the protagonist, a young boy, pats the covered crotch area of a sleeping teenage girl before removing her panties. The same boy later appears naked in the bathtub and is naked when he performs flying jump kicks.
In another scene, a Peeping Tom watches a naked teenage girl as she takes a shower. Furthermore, the novel shows a teenage girl flashing a bearded man; and another man asking a girl about her bra size.
Wicomico schools Superintendent John Fredericksen, present at Tuesday's meeting for an unrelated topic, said his knee-jerk response is to yank the book from schools.
"I'd say it's coming off the shelves as soon as I can get a phone call back to the office," Fredericksen said.
He said graphic novels are an accepted genre in the school system, in part, because they appeal to children who often aren't interested in traditional forms of reading.
Fredericksen said the book in question was likely purchased with grant funding. He said he expects the book to be reviewed by a committee that judges the merit of red-flagged books. At that point, a permanent decision on the future of the "Dragon Ball" book will be made.
Holloway said he found out about the book after being contacted by the mother of the 9-year-old who had checked it out. The women has told Holloway, he said, that she does not wish to be identified.
"The drawings and story lines are disgusting," Holloway said of the book
Holloway had copied portions of a Japanese graphic novel. He said a fourth-grader recently checked it out of the Pittsville Elementary and Middle School library.
The book, "Dragon Ball, Volume 1: The Monkey King." is laid out like a comic book, and in it children sometimes appear naked. Akira Toriyama's book, later adapted into a popular animated TV show, focuses on Son Goku, a monkey-tailed boy on a quest to obtain mythical objects called Dragon Balls.
"In cartoon format, it depicts nudity, sexual contact between children and sexual innuendo among adults and children," Holloway told fellow council members during the comment period of Tuesday's meeting.
Photocopies provided by Holloway detail several of the scenes.
In one, the protagonist, a young boy, pats the covered crotch area of a sleeping teenage girl before removing her panties. The same boy later appears naked in the bathtub and is naked when he performs flying jump kicks.
In another scene, a Peeping Tom watches a naked teenage girl as she takes a shower. Furthermore, the novel shows a teenage girl flashing a bearded man; and another man asking a girl about her bra size.
Wicomico schools Superintendent John Fredericksen, present at Tuesday's meeting for an unrelated topic, said his knee-jerk response is to yank the book from schools.
"I'd say it's coming off the shelves as soon as I can get a phone call back to the office," Fredericksen said.
He said graphic novels are an accepted genre in the school system, in part, because they appeal to children who often aren't interested in traditional forms of reading.
Fredericksen said the book in question was likely purchased with grant funding. He said he expects the book to be reviewed by a committee that judges the merit of red-flagged books. At that point, a permanent decision on the future of the "Dragon Ball" book will be made.
Holloway said he found out about the book after being contacted by the mother of the 9-year-old who had checked it out. The women has told Holloway, he said, that she does not wish to be identified.
"The drawings and story lines are disgusting," Holloway said of the book
